So if there’s a shortage of planners where does the newly (or nearly) qualified fit into the picture?
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Loading ...So if there’s a shortage of planners where does the newly (or nearly) qualified fit into the picture? So you have years of experience in another field and have decided it’s time to make a career change. You’ve just spent 1200 or so hours studying and it’s cost you nearly $20,000 in fees. What are the chances of you getting a job as a Planner? What is the planning profession looking for and is this realistic from a profession with a shortage of employees?
The 2004 National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment of the PIA completed a comprehensive inquiry into the alleged serious shortage of planners in this country. (PIA 2004) It sought to address the workplace environment and professional training issues. It identified a 16% vacancy rate with long-term shortages especially in rural and regional areas. These figures were based on the 2001 census and responses to a questionnaire. (online) However, if one reads more into the document the concern is really with a shortage of “experienced” planners; i.e. those with 10 years experience. And when one considers the contents of one of the summary tables it identifies only South East Queensland as experiencing an “emerging critical problem” with the supply of planners. The other states, although they may not be producing their own local graduates, are still only experiencing a “small number of vacancies”. Once again, with a “skills shortage” identified in Australia the cry is for the importation of overseas specialists, introduction of cadetships and an increase in graduate places. The report considers another possible solution of “tap(ping) into experienced people in related professions by promoting post-graduate planning courses”.
However are these realistic solutions? What about those people who have completed their training and then are passed over because they lack “experience”? According to this Inquiry the most important skills needed in planning is participation liaison and communication techniques. As such, shouldn’t these skills be considered as “experience” when planners are being recruited? But is this happening? Is the planning profession prepared to take on these graduates? Perhaps the real problem here is that the planners making the recruitment decisions are just not “thinking outside the square” and considering potential translatable skills in candidates that will add to the expertise needed by the profession. Or perhaps this is really about the profession not knowing what it requires for the job? As Sandercock states, one of the dilemmas of planning is “the tendency to draw tight boundaries around professional identity, which prevents a truly inter-disciplinary understanding and practice from emerging”. (Sandercock 1997) Then again is it that the graduates are not being trained in the skills they need to do the job? Are work placements the answer to this? As Coiacetto notes, work placements may be difficult to organise and may not provide the experience needed for a particular student’s needs. (Coiacetto 2004)
So where does that leave us? Are we training people for a profession crying out for candidates but with candidates not fitting the requirements and unable to get a job?
References:
Coiacetto, E (2004) “The Value of a Structured Planning Practicum Program – Insights from Experience” Australian Planner Vol 41 Issue 2
PIA (2004) “Findings and Recommendations of the National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment”
Sandercock, L (1997) “The Planner Tamed – Preparing Planners for the 21st Century” Australian Planner Vol 34 Issue 2
Posted in Education, Planning Practice |
Robyn - Just wanted to say thanks for getting us started - and to let everyone else know that comments are open.
Everyone - Remember that we can take advantage of the online medium to post links to other materials on the web, as well as references to print resources. (If you scroll back through some of the posts put up last term, you’ll see some examples of what other students have done - and you may find some references or issues that are helpful to you.) Adding references and links to online materials will help the discussions build up a kind of knowledge base that you can all use when preparing your final essays.
To create a link to an online resource in a comment, you can use the following html code:
This will create a link that looks like this to your readers: the text you want to appear in your comment.
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Enjoy your discussions - and thank you, Robyn, for getting us started.
[…] at Cities of Theory asks a pertinent and oft-raised question - “are we training people for a profession crying out for candidates but with candidates not […]
Just to clarify, you don’t have to add the rel=”nofollow” in the hyperlink code if you are inserting a link in the comment. Wordpress automatically does that for you.
That attribute is to prevent outgoing links from enjoying ‘Google juice’ from your website and generally should not be used unless you want to prevent that site from being promoted in Google due to your linking.
And, in fact, that’s exactly what Wordpress did above! I hadn’t actually typed the rel=”nofollow” bit - I hadn’t expected it to insert inside the tags I was using to force the code to display, and hadn’t noticed… Thanks for pointing it out :-)
And a note to those unfamiliar with blogging: comment #2 has been left at an external website - you can follow the link to see the site making the comment. (And: thanks to Urban Planning Blog for the link!)
Robin raises a fundamental question for those of us in particular, who are attempting to work our way through this program, around fulltime work and one’s other commitments…..what for?
This question prompts me to return to the writings of March (2005), Whitzman (2004) and Gleeson (2003), and their collective discussion of a profession in crisis, struggling to justify its contribution in a contemporary context. These young academics of the Australian Planning scene suggest the profession’s need to speak economic, social and political ‘languages’ to ensure survival.
Robin mentions Sandercock’s (1997) assessment of the profession, as having a tendency to draw tight boundaries around professional identity, which prevents a truly inter-disciplinary understanding and practice from emerging. As a relative newcomer to the profession, some degree of naivety is to be expected yet it seems obvious that the profession needs to return to its origins and broaden the way in which the same vision addressed by Ebenezer Howard is pursued: the desire to shape communities for the betterment of humanity.
Finally, Robin poses the question…are we training people for a profession crying out for candidates but with candidates not fitting the requirements and unable to get a job?
It would appear that Robin may have answered her own question.
The 2004 PIA Inquiry suggests tapping into experienced people by promoting post-graduate planning courses. From the brief introductions provided online by fellow students of this program, there appears to be a number of us who have come to Planning from various other fields. Like most professions, as Robin identifies from the PIA Inquiry, the most important skills needed in planning is participation, liaison and communication techniques.
Change is always difficult however, for a profession in such crisis, it is from such times that a reinvigorated profession begins to emerge, driven by the change-makers throughout academia, government, the private sector and general community.
References:
Gleeson, Brendan (2003) “The Difference that Planning Makes” Environment and Planning A, vol. 35, pp. 761-70.
March, Alan (2005) “Suffer the Citizens: Urban Planning without Theory” Urban Policy and Research, vol.23, no. 1, March, pp.1-3.
PIA (2004) “Findings and Recommendations of the National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment”.
Sandercock, L (1997) “The Planner Tamed – Preparing Planners for the 21st Century” Australian Planner Vol 34 Issue 2.
Whitzman, Caroline (2004) “The Crisis in Planning (Don’t Yawn! Don’t Turn the Page!” Urban Policy and Research, vol.22, no. 4, December, pp. 341-43.
Thanks for your comments Emma Jane. As you have mentioned there are a number of people in our class who are doing the course with experience and qualifications from other industries. It is this experience that is of particular interest to me in this question I have posed. As part of this exercise I will be organising a short survey and will be seeking input to add to the debate. Once I have the technology solution I will let everyone know how they can access the survey.
A link to the PIA survey mentioned in my previous post can be found at:
http://www.planning.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=133&Itemid=116
and click on “Report” to open the document.
Robyn (with a “y”)
As Robyn mentions the planning profession is advertised as having a shortage of experienced planners and the PIA inquiry shows that there is a long term shortage problem in rural and regional areas. When looking closer at these job vacancies it also becomes clear that most of these jobs are in local government positions. I tend to think that the reason for this is that rural and regional areas can’t offer the same wage as inner city local governments can. When comparing the wages and cost of living for city and rural jobs you are no worse off for receiving the lower wage in the rural area. This doesn’t seem to be the way of thinking though. I think this one of the main reasons for the long term vacancies.
Another issue that arises due to the rural vacancies is that of inexperienced planners ending up in senior planning positions. As stated in the PIA inquiry and mentioned by Robyn the definition of an experienced planner is one that has more than ten years experience.
So if inexperienced planners are ending up in senior positions who do they learn from and how are they making the right planning decisions with the lack of experience and knowledge? This is an area that is turning into a vicious circle with junior planners working under senior planners who have limited planning experience. Bad habits and false information can tend to be passed on in this respect.
The promoting of postgraduate planning courses may produce more planners but it is not solving the issue of experienced planners. The PIA’s new introduction of the Certified Practicing Planner qualification is one way in which the institute is trying to address this problem by introducing more training to produce better planners.
REFERENCES
PIA (2004) “Findings and Recommendations of the National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment”
Sandercock, L (1997) “The Planner Tamed – Preparing Planners for the 21st Century” Australian Planner Vol 32 Issue 2.
Thanks JMB for your insights. Today I spent some time going through the last month’s advertised positions for Planners on seek.com.au and then went through the Employment section in “The Age”. There’s been 30 jobs advertised since 3rd August on seek.com.au. Compare this with 20 vacancies in “The Age” this Saturday.
Of these 20, 4 are in country Victoria (Beechworth and Bright) 2 out of the 20 are part-time, and 6 out of the 20 are for new graduates or nearly new graduates. Of the 30 on seek - all of them required experience. Obviously there are some overlaps in these adverts, but it would appear that seek is not seen as the target portal for recruiting new/nearly new graduates.
I just want to make a response to followup on your comment about the barriers to entry for candidates for rural vacancies. I agree, that the pay is a limiting factor. For example, if you are living in Melbourne and then have to move to the country to take up a job, then there is little incentive if this involves new rental/purchasing expenses for the same pay. I think you mentioned that you thought the cost of living would be commensurate with pay in the country. Actually, from personal experience (I had relatives who lived in Beechworth until recently) this is not the case. Food and groceries are more expensive in the country towns. I’m not sure about rental costs, but I would imagine it may well be hard to find rental accommodation in a country town…which may mean you would have to find short-term motel/or cabin/caravan accommodation if you took a job in a country town - all things to be considered for new recruits. I haven’t seen any of the country jobs offering moving expenses or accommodation allowances. With the pay rate exactly the same in a rural local council as it is in the city of Melbourne i.e. a Band 4 is a Band 4 anywhere across the state, then it’s a hard call to expect young planners to move to the country.
So - there’s more scope for consideration of incentives for rural planners herein…
Some more thoughts on “growing” local talent perhaps for the country?
And how about retention of planners once they get to the country? Will they want to stay?
Robyn
Refs:
http://www.seek.com.au/jobsearch Date accessed 19 August 2007
“The Age” Sat 18 August p 43 - 50
I think Robyn has raised a very important issue of the contemporary planning in Australia. The shortage of planners is indeed serious and chronic according to the information provided. According to Robyn part of the problem is for the ‘newly (nearly) qualified’ to fit into the profession of planning. This may be a serious problem. There are other issues as well. As the National Enquiry into Planning Education and Employment (online) shows post-graduate training is difficult for planners to access due to either geographical location (regional and rural) or lack of spare time. Furthermore, a large proportion of planners work in local government which are too under-resourced to retain the planners (ALGA [online]).
What is also surprising is that the number of female planners declines as their experiences grow. Female planners represent 50% of the total number of planners but only 26% of the total planners over 35 years of age according to the National Enquiry into Planning Education and Employment [online], which states that if women leave the profession for family reasons, there are many other reasons for planners to leave Australia if not the profession such as moving overseas and to other professions.
Therefore, the shortage of planners in Australia is probably a result of mixed problems. As far as I understand from the literatures even if newly (nearly) qualified planners are accepted into the profession they tend to leave the profession afterwards for the various reasons stated above after their experiences grow. Therefore, I guess the issue is also how to retain the experienced planners in the profession of planning.
References
Brown C., Claydon J. & Nadin V. Background Paper 2 – Planning, Planners and Professionalism [online] http://www.uwe.ac.uk/fbe/RTPI/planners.pdf [accessed 19 August 2007]
National Enquiry into Planning Education and Employment, Planning Institute of Australia (PIA) [online] http://www.planning.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=133&Itemid=116 [accessed 19 August 2007]
Planning education and employment, Australian Local Government Association (ALGA) [online] http://www.alga.asn.au/policy/planhouse/edEmp.php [accessed 19 August 2007]
I think you have raised an interesting question as to the retention of planners, and in particular of female planners. Recent literature it talks about the fact that it’s the stress and dealing with the public that causes loss of planners, especially in the local government arena. (Merget 2007)
Another reason cited in the UK is basically that it is a remuneration issue. (see link http://www.stoke.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=1365786) A clever solution to this problem has been to link “market value” incentives one being what they call a “loyalty bonus”. But perhaps for some planners in Australia this would not be enough incentive to remain in a local government position.
In addition there is the issue of attracting planners (see link http://www.bowenbasin.cqu.edu.au/pdfs/dotars_colloq.pdf) to our regional areas. This particular article (which refers to research done in North Queensland) cautions us about trying to apply solutions that work in one area to that of another – so perhaps the solution cited above from Stoke on Trent may or may not work in our more remote areas here in Australia.
So what do you think are some other problems that may be causing this shortage? And do you have any other ideas about how people, once in the jobs, would be induced to stay? And if it is mostly the female planners who are leaving, then what do you think can be done to keep their skills in the system?
References:
http://www.bowenbasin.cqu.edu.au/pdfs/dotars_colloq.pdf date accessed 21 Aug 2007
http://www.stoke.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=1365786 date accessed 21 Aug 2007
http://www.lga.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/2003_Circular_22_10___Planning_Skills_Retention_and_Development_Project_Report_pdf1.pdf date accessed 21 Aug 2007
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0033-3352%28198801%2F02%2948%3A1%3C588%3ALGPUSI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage date accessed 21 Aug 2007 referring to “Local Government Professionals under Stress: In Pursuit of Economic Development, Efficiency, and Equity” – Astrid E Merget & Patricia W Ingraham
Hello - Just a quick note on references to online resources - to avoid the really long URL problem of some of the comments and posts (I edit this out of posts, as they show up on the main page and will throw out the formatting on the main site, but tend to let comments through).
An easier-to-read practice is to treat your online references the same way you treat your print ones - so author name (or agency name, as the case may be), date, title, etc. Then include your link, but make the text that shows up on the actual page, not the whole URL, but just the word “(online)” - you can see places on the main page where I have edited posts to look like this this.
To do this, you want to look for the place in between the “tags” in your link code. The code for a link looks like this:
The “tags” are the bits enclosed within brackets - the “a href” and “/a” parts of this code, for example:
You don’t want to edit the content inside each bracket, but you can freely edit the text between the brackets, if this makes sense. So, instead of
Which will produce this on the page: http://www.longurl.com
You can do this:
Which will produce this on the page: (online)
When the URL is really long, replacing it with a shorter piece of text can make the comment much more readable. As well, providing full citation information, as you do for other forms of print sources, can be useful for classmates who may want to cite some of this material later.
Hope this helps!
Robyn and Emma Jane have both brought up a valid point for all of those who are working full time while completing this course, however what about those few that have no work experience in either planning or any other professional field? When I started my Masters all of 5 weeks back, all I had to my name was a Bachelor of Arts completed last year. No experience in the business or professional world to speak of, just a series of part time retail jobs to pay my way through Uni. I failed to find employment in the planning industry after finishing my undergraduate degree, so I decided to complete this Masters. Since starting this course I have obtained an office assistant job at a planning firm. I am starting at the bottom but at least I have my foot in the door.
The National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment talks of the need for ‘experienced’ planners (PIA 2004). As Robyn points out though, this experience is simply participation, liaison and communication techniques, all of which one can pick up in the professional world. Yet the individuals with those skills and a just completed degree are still not ‘experienced’ enough for the industry. What hope does that leave the individuals with none of those skills? Or at least not in a professional setting?
I think it is great that the National Inquiry has acknowledged the shortage of planners and is working with universities to increase the number of places in courses, but how is this going to help? At the end of the course, there are still going to be a number of people that have no experience in planning behind them. Altering visa restrictions is not going to help either, as it will leave more and more Australian graduates without jobs because of their lack of experience and the ease of employing experienced migrants.
Robyn uses Sandercock’s argument that the main dilemma of planning is “the tendency to draw tight boundaries around professional identity, which prevents a truly inter-disciplinary understanding and practice from emerging” (Sandercock 1997). This is also reflected in the writings of March (2005), Whitzman (2004) and Gleeson (2003), and their belief that planning is a profession without a clear description of what is undertaken. The suggestion put forward by the PIA’s inquiry of cadetship programs is a possible solution to the crisis. In my new job I am already learning First Rate Energy software and basic documentation, so perhaps the idea of combining study and entry level planning work is the best solution to an increasing ‘experience’ crisis.
References
Gleeson, B. (2003); “The Difference that Planning Makes”; Environment and Planning A; 35: pp. 761-70.
March, A. (2005); “Suffer the Citizens: Urban Planning without Theory”; Urban Policy and Research; 23(1); March: pp.1-3.
PIA (2004) “Findings and Recommendations of the National Inquiry into Planning Education and Employment”
Sandercock, L. (1997); “The Planner Tamed – Preparing Planners for the 21st Century”; Australian Planner; 34(2).
Whitzman, C, (2004); “The Crisis in Planning (Don’t Yawn! Don’t Turn the Page!”; Urban Policy and Research; 22(4); December: pp. 341-43.
One of the interesting statistics in the literature we have been referring to so far indicates that some 67% of the jobs advertised are filled by currently employed planners; so there is a 67% “churn” if you like in the market. This flows on from the fact that there seems to be a lot of stressed out planners (referred to by Whitzman), unhappy in their jobs and looking for something better. This in turn then means that these same disgruntled planners then provide the experienced pool of candidates required by the recruiters. It would seem that it is easier to recruit someone who just knows how to do the job than to spend time training up someone new. If an area is busy and stressed out, the last thing someone needs is a new trainee, one presumes.
So is it realistic to expect that this will be the way someone new is going to learn? And if this is proving “too hard” for the industry to train new talent, then how do the recruiters become convinced that the university courses are worthwhile and as good as “experience”?
Robyn
Further to the blog titled – So there is a shortage of planners where does the newly (or nearly) qualified fit into the picture?
Your blog raises some interesting questions with regard to this contemporary issue. Perhaps the easiest way to respond is to share my own ideas and experience with you and provide some further statistics that I have found and theories that I also maintain.
My experience
I am a planner with three years experience in Local Government statutory planning. I have worked in a smallish Shire in Queensland for the past two years. My university experience was a four year degree in environmental and urban planning. During university I worked as a sales person, builder’s labourer, news paper deliverer, ticket collector / usher, wilderness society campaigner, surveyors offsider and store person. In addition, to this I participated in university accredited work placement in planning related positions. The aforementioned work experiences I believe prepared me for the work in statutory planning I know do every day. However, in my first ‘real job – with the hair cut and tie to boot’ these experiences were not recognized. To a certain degree, to count some of these toward professional experience would be laughable. Notwithstanding this, a lot of my prior work experience had a lot to do with the current position I fill. The most relevant to the field was sales. This experience essentially had me trimmed and communicating with the public including diffusing conflict situations.
My first real job was rather pleasant compared to my current position. I was able to sit quietly and figure out what it was that I was meant to be doing with a very experienced manager guiding me through. It is a shame that I packed up and left the country on an overseas adventure (also adds to ones experience). Returning from this journey I found myself in the chaotic and toxic world of development assessment in Queensland. Adding to this dilemma was a lack of professional guidance or even time to research or even apply what I had learnt at university. I was appointed as a graduate and thrown in the deep end. Maintaining my sanity was attributable to may past experience in planning and an extremely busy sales position. I was a newly qualified planner. Our Shire has experienced shortages in planning staff over the years which can be seen by looking at the number of approvals granted with little merit or grounds. Further the backlog of applications and consultant fees. There is however a light at the end of this storey, a happy ending of sorts. Our Shire now has an experienced Manager, Coordinator, intermediate planner (me), subdivision engineer and three recent graduates.
Getting a Job
With regard to getting a job, I found that there are many opportunities for graduates and the nearly qualified in Queensland. Nearly qualified planners should be scoping the various recruitment agencies, web job sites and local consulting firms or Government agencies for internships or offers to undertake work experience.
Graduates will find an array of places seeking full time planners. In responding to those arduous selection criteria use your university and work experiences exhaustively.
Links to the various find a planning job pages are provided below.
The Demand
In Queensland the introduction of the Integrated Planning Act 1997 and the emergence of performance based planning increased the demand on Local Government (Shaw, 2002). This is still the case, as identified in an Integrated Planning Seminar presented by Deacons (2007). Further in a recent news release by the Local Government Association of Queensland identified that there are shortages of planners in both Local Government and private spheres (LGAQ, 2007).
Shaw (2002) also suggests that the size of an organisation (number of planners) is not proportionate to workloads and staff shortfalls result in increasing numbers of development applications being farmed out to consultant’s.
Where do the newly (or nearly) qualified fit into the picture – Queensland / Statutory example.
In my experience and that of colleagues and fellow graduates indicates that graduates are almost immediately required to perform a role which has almost zero relevance to university courses of study with little training or experience handed down.
Are graduates in Queensland having the complexities of IPA thrown at them without experienced Planners present at their ceremonial first introduction? Should universities be offering crash courses in development assessment prior to letting their little pets out into the world? Or perhaps this should be a mandatory project aimed encouraging research and participation in a real world situation? Should there be greater emphasis on skills (practice) rather than theory?
Other Theories and comments
A degree in Planning provides graduates with a range of job opportunities which are not traditionally planning. Are the newly qualified (or nearly) filling other positions related or unrelated to traditional or mainstream planning? Has planning become a broad qualification rather than a specialised field? Am I frightening the newly qualified or nearly qualified?
The recent attraction and retention survey – Town Planners in the Public and Private Sectors carried out by the Planning Institute of Australia may shed further light on some of the matters raised in this blog.
I will end it here. Thank you Robyn for your post. I am happy to have shared the first three years of my Planning life with the class.
Links to Planning Jobs
http://www.jobsinplanning.com/
http://www.planning.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=171&Itemid=120
http://www.job-directory.com.au/jobs.asp
http://www.seek.com.au/jobsearch/index.ascx?DateRange=31&Keywords=Planner&searchfrom=quick
References:
Shaw, R. 2002. Development Assessment in Local Government – shortage of planners, Queensland Planner, Volume 42, No. 1, March, pages 17 – 18.
Local Government Association Queensland, News Release, Shortage of Development Professionals is Affecting Approval Times Report, accessed online at - http://www.lgaq.asn.au/portal/dt?action=content&provider=JSPTabContainer, access date 27 August 2007.
Planning Institute of Australia, Attraction and retention survey, town planners in the public and private sectors, accessed online at – http://www.planning.org.au/qld , access date 18 August 2007.
Thanks so much for your input! This is the “real” stuff that I think many of us are interested in. I certainly am, anyway.
More of this sort of thing would be very helpful for the class I’m sure and especially for those of us who are “young” planners.
Cheers
Robyn
I have set up a link here to a 5-10 minute survey if people would like to contribute. The aim of this is to get a broad picture of who’s doing what Planning course at RMIT and why, what people’s job expectations are and where people are looking for their next job in Planning.
Here’s the link - enjoy!
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=ZPsCVetGxZstXjc5F4XaHg_3d_3d
Results will be available on request at the end of October - depending on how many responses we get. Hopefully we’ll get lots!
Even though this survey is mainly for RMIT students, if other people not from RMIT would like to contribute they are most welcome. You can put in your course details in Question 4…
Robyn
The survey is going well and thanks for those who have already participated. If someone would like to fill it out using a Word document email me and I will send it to you this way otherwise the link is:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=ZPsCVetGxZstXjc5F4XaHg_3d_3d
Robyn
Robyn’s topic is one that is sure to produce many and varied opinions. I can only provide comments which relate to my own experience.
In 1989 I started working for a town planning consultant as his typist. I loved the work and thought that ‘Planning’ would be a great career to get into. I never finished high school and now, almost 20 years later, I am starting a Masters degree in Planning to fulfil that early dream.
My typist job was only casual and only lasted about 18 months before my boss relocated from South West Victoria to Queensland to work for local government.
Around two years ago I decided that I wanted to be a town planner and literally asked my local council for a job in the Planning Department. I had no town planning experience, but many years of office experience and they were happy with that and employed me as a Planning Assistant on a contract basis, one day a week.
Two years on I’m a full-time Planning Assistant with a lot of experience in development application assessment and I’m good at what I do. However, when a qualified position presented itself this year, I applied for it thinking I’d be in with a good chance. I didn’t have a degree, but then there were graduates with degrees who had absolutely no experience in how to assess a shed, let alone anything more complex.
I missed out. Apparently I interviewed excellently and would have got the job, if I’d had a degree. They didn’t appoint any of the applicants and ended up employing someone from overseas, who still had to be taught the ‘Australian’ way, but he had the almighty degree.
As far as pay rates, rural positions and local government is concerned, I can comment quite confidently on all three. I work in a large local government authority in rural/remote Western Australia, which also happens to be a significant mining town.
The cost of living here is very high, rents are based on miner’s wages, which most of us don’t get. But the pay rates in my council are great. All qualified planners start at quite a high level and on top of their normal wage they are entitled to a rentention allowance worth several thousand dollars per year.
I think that the shortages in local government are probably due to the fact the development assessment work appears quite boring to someone who has just done a four year degree. I believe that part of the problem is that the universities are spending four years educating people to be strategic planners and nowhere near enough time educating anyone to be statutory planners.
It’s all very well to be able to plan towns, suburbs, neighbourhoods, etc. but if you don’t have bums on seats in councils actually assessing the development to go in those new areas you end up with a huge backlog and the planners who are in local government get very disheartened.
I’m married to a local government civil engineer and we’ve spent a fair bit of time looking at all local government vacancies over the years. It’s been interesting to see that the very place my first town planning boss moved to in Queensland all those years ago, is the very local government authority that is continually advertising for planners, at all levels.
Given Queensland is a very desirable place to live, it makes you wonder why it’s so hard to fill these positions and retain the planners they eventually employ.
So to come right back to Robyn’s original question, I think the employment of planners depends on the employer. If you were applying to my Council, all you would need would be the piece of paper, but then I have a young, dynamic boss who is of the opinion that graduates can be taught statutory planning on the job. Other Councils with older planning managers may not want to spend the time teaching because they could better use the time assessing.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know that if you want to be a planner badly enough, there are plenty of jobs outside of the metropolitan areas who would be more than happy to have you.
Thanks so much for sharing that with us. It’s good to get the contrasting views on all of this. Any more anecdotal stories will certainly add to this interesting discussion….
Thanks too to those who have already filled out the survey - it is progressing nicely, and I’m hoping to have some useful results from it.
Robyn
So far the survey responses are indicating the following:
• Most people who’ve responded consider themselves to be “young” planners (
Oops - sorry - don’t know what happened with that last post - here it is again…
So far the survey responses are indicating the following:
Most people who’ve responded consider themselves to be “young” planners (
Third time lucky with this posting!
So far the survey responses are showing that most people who’ve responded consider themselves to be “young” planners; most people have indicated that they are doing the course at RMIT to get practical training as a planner with half of them having some planning related qualifications already; two-thirds are not working in planning roles yet;
60% say they’d move to another location for a job in planning with 33% of those saying they’d go as far as interstate; 60% think it will be relatively easy to find the role they want with most thinking it will take about 3 months to find the right job; just over half will be looking for a job in local government and most respondents think that it will be a combination of their experience and qualifications that will win them the role they want.
So if there’s any more people out there willing to share their experiences that might further this discussion please feel free to contribute!
And here’s the link to the survey if you haven’t had a chance to do it yet – takes about 5-10 minutes….
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=ZPsCVetGxZstXjc5F4XaHg_3d_3d
What qualities or skills should planners possess? As Robyn stated, communication skills and participation liaison are cited as important attributes. Planners also have to deal with conflicting situations while attempting to secure the widest benefits (Swain, C., and Tait, M., 2007). Swain and Tait go on to add that planners have to foster collaboration, seek consensus and as a consequence build trust, and also mediate between different interests in the public interest. There are also generalist planners and specialised ones (heritage/ social/ environmental planners). Most planners tend to be generalist who needs to be able to “integrate perspectives from a number of specialisations” (Dalton, L., 2007).
Does everyone who wants to be a planner share those attributes? Do they necessarily have to have those attributes at the onset? Not necessarily, but they need to show the potential for that attributes and the ability to empathise when the use of land is such a personal matter.
It is true in certain instances that employers do not seem to give new graduates or students a chance to dip their toe into planning. But some planners I know go through the planning administration role as an area to learn before they then become a planner. It is perhaps an apt training ground for the employer to ascertain the new planning student’s ability and the employee to find out if he/ she really likes the job. I believe an employer who selects a potential planner also looks for one who shows the tenacity and willingness to persevere in a profession that can be discouraging and demoralising at times.
Employers wanting an experienced person to jump into a job is not particular to planning but to most professions. However, in a market system, if there are enough supply, the position will be filled.
Thanks for your post Victoria.
The generalist and “translatable” skills you cite are particularly relevant for planners, but also to other professions.
I agree with your statement that employers wanting experience is a requirement of most professions. Having said that, from my experience, this is a particularly Australian problem. In the US (from my family’s experience) employers seem to be able to cope with the idea more readily that candidates may not have “done the job yesterday” but have “translatable skills” that they may be able to use. Perhaps this is more indicative of the fact that much of America is based around the small town and the candidate pool is smaller for each job. This is perhaps the case in rural Australia, where, as we have seen from other posts, people are telling us that there is more readiness to “give candidates a go”.
As for the pathway to becoming a planner being through administration, or as my local council fondly refers to it as “growing our planners” I have my doubts. Although being an Administration officer may well teach you where the filing goes, it certainly doesn’t give you the necessary skills of mediation, report writing and presentation skills needed for that part of the role of a planner such as dealing with VCAT or community engagement activities. To some extent, neither does an online university course….So if a potential candidate has these skills from another field then it’s a pity that employers aren’t recognising them as useful for a planner.
Robyn
Hi Robyn
I understand your point about starting in administration but from an administrative aspect, although one may not be involved in planning, one observes how the planning process is conducted and learn from there. If one’s supervisor and colleagues are kind enough, they would even over time pass on work to you to do. To me, a position title is just that and doesn’t indicate the type of work that one will do. I started out as an assistant planner but ended up doing more admin work than planning - so it was just that, a title.
Employers would also want to hire someone who plans to be in the profession for the long term and not someone who is “trying out” which may explain why most planners have to rise up through the ranks to prove themselves.
Hi Victoria - again, thanks for your comments.
I wonder where this fits in with the fact that most young people today are expecting to cover 5 or 6 professions/areas of expertise in their working lives? Does this mean that planners can’t see themselves ever leaving the profession? And do they value expertise from other professions? Some of the research from PIA indicates that it would be of value to the profession to have people from other disciplines “come across” and provide a broader perspective to the industry. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Cheers
Robyn
Hi Robyn
Thanks for your comments. May I pls seek clarification about who expect young people to cover 5 or 6 professions/ areas of expertise in their working lives? It’s just that I haven’t heard that before and am keen to find out more. Thanks.
I suppose it isn’t a matter of planners not being able to leave the profession but that employers wanting to minimise that happening. When one changes from one field to another, is one still expected to learn the ropes from the beginning? In a profession that lacks sufficient planners, I can understand employers not wanting to lose those they’ve trained (same with all industries).
I definitely agree with PIA’s statement about having people from other disciplines “come across” but it is also about managing both parties expectations. I suppose I wanted to say to planning students out there not to be disheartened if either one hasn’t got your foot through the planning door or started out in administration because soon enough, with perseverance, you’ll get in.
All the best with everything, Robyn!
There was a whole conference on this and related issues held in 2005 at University of Melbourne - but unfortunately all the links are now dead. However, there’s a good media release “”Jobs for life” disappear as workers cope with workplace change”, dated Wed 16 Feb 2005.
Link is:
http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/articleid_2068.html
(sorry I haven’t worked out the links thing on here as yet…)
Cheers
Robyn
Hi again Victoria
You have cited two references in one of your posts - but there’s no detail of them - I would like them for my essay - can you let me know what they are please? There’s (Dalton 2007) and (Swain and Tait) noted in your comments.
Thanks
Robyn
Hi Robyn
Sorry about that. As soon as I sent my comment, I realised I forgot to give the full references. So here are they:
Swain, C., and Tait, M., “The crisis of trust and planning” in Planning theory and practice, vol. 8, no. 2, June 2007, p. 229-247.
Dalton, L. C., “Preparing planners for the breadth of practice : what we need to know depends on whom we ask” in Journal of the American Planning Association, vol. 73, no. 1, Winter 2007, p. 35-48.
If you have trouble getting hold of the articles I’ve quoted, do let me know and I can email you a copy.
All the best with your assignment!
Rgds/ Victoria Brown
Last call for contributions to my survey! If you haven’t had a chance to do it - it only takes 5 minutes…
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=ZPsCVetGxZstXjc5F4XaHg_3d_3d
Cheers
Robyn
I agree with some of the points Robyn makes in response to the PIA report on the critical shortage of planners. In particular, I agree that it is a shortage of experienced planners rather than planners in general. I am currently working in a local government in south east Queensland and can honestly say that as a planner who has been working in the field for 3 years (strategic planning), there is a serious shortage of experienced planners who can mentor the younger planners.
As I have said in a previous blog (Planning! A Profession with an Identity Crisis), on the job training provides the skills required to process a planning application, or write planning scheme amendments, it does not provide the theory that university does. Learning and discussing planning theory provides the student with the tools for developing professional opinions regarding important issues such as urban consolidation and climate change. These opinions lead planners to fight for good outcomes when assessing development applications or strategic planning.